Closed [FF2] A Few Suggestions

Yuki

Administrator
TF2 Admin
#21
Isn't the Amby 100% accurate at its rested state? Or was that changed as part of the fall off update.

I haven't used it since the update and the small patch that tried to make it somewhat usable on FF2 with the higher than revolver damage up close but has a more aggressive drop-off.
 
#22
Isn't the Amby 100% accurate at its rested state? Or was that changed as part of the fall off update.

I haven't used it since the update and the small patch that tried to make it somewhat usable on FF2 with the higher than revolver damage up close but has a more aggressive drop-off.
It is still accurate on its rested state, but the damage fall off still applies.

To be honest, the ambassador is close to useless because when you try go get a headshot in mid-range to CQC you'll probably die anyway.
 
#23
The Ambassador is supposedly 50% more accurate than the stock Revolver.
Adding a +% accuracy would make the shots following the resting state more accurate, so an accuracy bonus would affect the Ambassador's reliability.

Straight from the logs: First-shots are no longer perfectly accurate. Bullet-spread is instead reduced by 50%.

If all else fails, then I have a couple of ideas. The first that comes to mind is something along the lines of this, may need some tinkering but it puts the thought in your head:

50% reduced primary ammo (forces the spy to move from his location to refill more often, giving hale more opportunities to end the spy.)
-95% clip size (1 shot, 1 kill.)
-40% reload speed (this is to prevent it from being spammy, like the Revolver)
4x damage from current state (making it do about 300 a shot)
-10% movement speed while equipped (giving Spies who use this up close a disadvantage)
(Alternatively, -5 max health on wearer to encourage the Spy to stay away while wielding this Revolver: if they picked this over Revolver then they plan to aim.)

This would, while losing the headshot purpose, give the Ambassador a different usability, and potentially offer something to players with better aim. This would serve as the "skill" opposite to the Revolver, and function kind of like a Sniper Rifle.
 
#24
The Ambassador is supposedly 50% more accurate than the stock Revolver.
Adding a +% accuracy would make the shots following the resting state more accurate, so an accuracy bonus would affect the Ambassador's reliability.

Straight from the logs: First-shots are no longer perfectly accurate. Bullet-spread is instead reduced by 50%.

If all else fails, then I have a couple of ideas. The first that comes to mind is something along the lines of this, may need some tinkering but it puts the thought in your head:

50% reduced primary ammo (forces the spy to move from his location to refill more often, giving hale more opportunities to end the spy.)
-95% clip size (1 shot, 1 kill.)
-40% reload speed (this is to prevent it from being spammy, like the Revolver)
4x damage from current state (making it do about 300 a shot)
-10% movement speed while equipped (giving Spies who use this up close a disadvantage)
(Alternatively, -5 max health on wearer to encourage the Spy to stay away while wielding this Revolver: if they picked this over Revolver then they plan to aim.)

This would, while losing the headshot purpose, give the Ambassador a different usability, and potentially offer something to players with better aim. This would serve as the "skill" opposite to the Revolver, and function kind of like a Sniper Rifle.
That's plausible.
 

Aggressive Burger

my burgers are aggressive
TF2 Admin
#25
The Ambassador is supposedly 50% more accurate than the stock Revolver.
Adding a +% accuracy would make the shots following the resting state more accurate, so an accuracy bonus would affect the Ambassador's reliability.

Straight from the logs: First-shots are no longer perfectly accurate. Bullet-spread is instead reduced by 50%.

If all else fails, then I have a couple of ideas. The first that comes to mind is something along the lines of this, may need some tinkering but it puts the thought in your head:

50% reduced primary ammo (forces the spy to move from his location to refill more often, giving hale more opportunities to end the spy.)
-95% clip size (1 shot, 1 kill.)
-40% reload speed (this is to prevent it from being spammy, like the Revolver)
4x damage from current state (making it do about 300 a shot)
-10% movement speed while equipped (giving Spies who use this up close a disadvantage)
(Alternatively, -5 max health on wearer to encourage the Spy to stay away while wielding this Revolver: if they picked this over Revolver then they plan to aim.)

This would, while losing the headshot purpose, give the Ambassador a different usability, and potentially offer something to players with better aim. This would serve as the "skill" opposite to the Revolver, and function kind of like a Sniper Rifle.
Fun fact: this may sound good on paper, but in actual game play testing. It makes a shitty weapon even shittier

Heres why:
280 hp
slow movement speed while gun is deployed
to do the most damage you need to be in close range
you have 1 shot
shitty reload speed

Test gamplay on paper:
spy has ambassador
hale comes
spy shoots hale for 300
spy runs while trying to reload
spy has -10% move speed
spy has -40% reload speed
spy has 280 hp
hale hits spy
spy dies

overall:
Your suggestion is a straight downgrade to the current ambassador due to the fact the ambassador does like 255 damage upclose. adding +45 damage for all those downsides is actually a shitty idea

How to change it:
does 400 at close range
-5% reload speed
-50% clipsize
-50% firing speed
Cannot crit or minicrit
-5 hp on wearer.
cannot headshot

Essentially, this makes a spy a glass cannon. Paired with the correct knife, the spy will still be able to survive a hit but will need to flee the battle zone to find health. The reload speed throws off the timing on the spy's shots and he may be caught with his pants down. Since this gun does 400 at close range, you dont want him spamming shots so the firing speed penalty comes in.

Edit: Why dont we just give the ambassador the crossbows more damage the longer the distance is?
 
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#26
Fun fact: this may sound good on paper, but in actual game play testing. It makes a shitty weapon even shittier

Heres why:
280 hp
slow movement speed while gun is deployed
to do the most damage you need to be in close range
you have 1 shot
shitty reload speed

Test gamplay on paper:
spy has ambassador
hale comes
spy shoots hale for 300
spy runs while trying to reload
spy has -10% move speed
spy has -40% reload speed
spy has 280 hp
hale hits spy
spy dies

overall:
Your suggestion is a straight downgrade to the current ambassador due to the fact the ambassador does like 255 damage upclose. adding +45 damage for all those downsides is actually a shitty idea
You have to keep in mind the Spy is not forced to reload. If and when he does, he can still trigger cloak during the animation to feign death or go invis while it plays out. On the other hand, he can just holster the Amby to lose the 10% speed penalty, or stay near Medics to get overhealed.

Also, I assume Joe meant 400 damage, since the Amby's current base damage is around 100 and he suggested multiplying it by 4. That's 400 in close range, up to 900 with minicrits and 1200 with crits. It may be weaker in practice due to fall-off, but it's a lot of damage for one bullet and will inflict a ton of knockback. If the stock Revolver lost its small fire rate, reload speed and clip size bonuses, it'd probably be a usable sidegrade.

How to change it:
does 400 at close range
-5% reload speed
-50% clipsize
-50% firing speed
Cannot crit or minicrit
-5 hp on wearer.
cannot headshot

Essentially, this makes a spy a glass cannon. Paired with the correct knife, the spy will still be able to survive a hit but will need to flee the battle zone to find health. The reload speed throws off the timing on the spy's shots and he may be caught with his pants down. Since this gun does 400 at close range, you dont want him spamming shots so the firing speed penalty comes in.
Two small issues : If we assume the Spy isn't getting overhealed by a Medic, regardless of which knife he pairs it with, hales hitting for 280 or more will still one shot him while weaker hales will still two shot him. Meanwhile, the -5% reload speed penalty only increases the reload time by ~0.058s, which is way too small to throw off anyone's timing or make it any more dangerous to be caught with an empty clip.

Other than that, what has my eye is the inability to crit. Sure, you start with more damage output than your rivals early on, but as the round progresses, those with other guns will begin getting crits from various sources. They'll catch up and surpass you fairly quickly after that. (From what I've seen lately, the new Direct Hit has this issue.) In my opinion, it wouldn't help the Amby feel more reliable than it is now.

Edit: Why dont we just give the ambassador the crossbows more damage the longer the distance is?
Is it possible, though?
 

Aggressive Burger

my burgers are aggressive
TF2 Admin
#28
I'm not sure. Yuki and I can always test it. Who knows. Maybe it'll act like a normal ambassador (pre nerf)

What if we did a -50% firing speed as well as a -50% reload speed along with my suggestions? I mean I don't do the math because I cba with it

I'm noticing that we are basically reworking an entire weapon because it's so bad. Is it actually worth it? Sure we can go through all this trouble but how many people are going to use the amb over the diamond back? The diamond back is just too useful to the spy even with the nerf.

So why go through all this trouble if no one is going to use it?
 
#29
To be honest, youre all better off with another useful weapon than try to revive something worthless.

TKO4oaP.png
 
#30
I'm not sure. Yuki and I can always test it. Who knows. Maybe it'll act like a normal ambassador (pre nerf)

What if we did a -50% firing speed as well as a -50% reload speed along with my suggestions? I mean I don't do the math because I cba with it

I'm noticing that we are basically reworking an entire weapon because it's so bad. Is it actually worth it? Sure we can go through all this trouble but how many people are going to use the amb over the diamond back? The diamond back is just too useful to the spy even with the nerf.

So why go through all this trouble if no one is going to use it?
Because some people like options, and others don't want to be Le Swipes Main. By forging a different-ish Playstyle with the tools given to them, or possibly can help make a weapon better for everyone else, they feel they can define how they want to play.
 
#31
Illegal, my -10% movement speed was interchangeable with the -5 max health. It is not a paired suggestion.

The only reason I suggested something along those lines is because I remember an ambassador functioning similarly elsewhere and it seemed better than the state it is in.

It does not matter what change we come to as long as it does function as something more than what it does.

Thanks all for looking into my suggestion.

Edit: Bad habit of necroposting, but I was not available to respond at the time.
 
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