New FF2 Boss Suggestion: Cowboygineer + Rabid Heavy Bear

#1
Hey guys!

I have a suggestion for a dual-type boss. What is a dual-type boss? Well, it's basically two players play two bosses for the round instead of just one boss.

But Malcolm! That sounds op! Having two bosses with 30k-40k HP?!?

No, the two bosses would divide the total health that one boss would have. Example: Hale by himself has 40k health. Two bosses in the same round have 20k each, etc.

With that explanation, the two bosses would be the Rabid Heavy Taming Engineer (or Cowboy for the menu) and the Rabid Heavy Bear (or Bear for the menu).

In the menu, it would look like (#)Cowboy and Bear

I got inspiration for this through CrashMaul's videos, and the introduction for these two characters are here:

Cowboygineer Abilities
  • Uses glove on right hand as primary melee (glove over Gunslinger).
  • As a rage, he stuns everyone around him and gains a Colt Revolver (possible to replace pistol with Spy Revolver + reskin) that has six shots and won't be able to use it after he runs out of ammo; has to rage to gain the revolver again.
  • His outfit goes as follow: Texas Ten Gallon, Texas Half-Pants, Prairie Heel Biters, Teufort Kickers, and a Workshop vest: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=123681054
Rabid Heavy Bear
  • Uses Warrior Spirit as primary melee.
  • Similar to Chozo! in other VSH servers, he has damage reduction from bullets, but takes more damage from melee sources (as seen in the video).
  • As a rage, Heavy Bear stuns everyone around him and gains the ability to do fatal damage while producing major knockback with his hits; OR he can just one shot people (for reference, see 4:30 in the video).
  • His cosmetics could literally just be the K-9 Mane or the Bear Necessities.
For both bosses, the skin packs are here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Bm9Oh7C9a5d1hWTHJtTjRoOWs/edit

For music, Mexico Fight from Call of Juarez - Bound in Blood would be perfect:

As an Engineer main and a lover of the western aesthetic, it would be surreal and amazing to see these two come to fruition as an addition to the server.

Let me know what you guys think!

Rabid_Heavy.jpg
 
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Flametosser

Active Member
#2
Duo hales have been argued over in the past. I remember a big issue being that players in the pair would often sandbag, drop, or just AFK up front (for various reasons). This made it impossible for them to win. There may of been some discussions regarding partner systems which could allow players to team up manually, but I dunno if they went far.

As for these two hales, the Tamer Engi getting an Amby on rage isn't exactly novel. SG already has four(?) hales with Revolvers, two of which can headshot. But if I really had anything to suggest, I think it'd be best to replace Rabid Heavy's crits on rage with minicrits and replace his passive resistances/weaknesses with a Battalion's Backup effect on rage.

It'd make him simpler, tankier and would allow most fully overhealed Reds to barely survive one hit. That's about it. They're pretty simple and straightforward, so I doubt they'd be badly over or underpowered. From my pov, all they'd need in order to work is a system allowing players to pick their partner and which of the two hales they play as.
 

Merpy

Queen of Ice
TF2 Admin
#4
In addition to what Flametosser said before, the biggest issue with duo-bosses,( or trio, quad, etc.) is that one, there is the issue of afk players or those who throw the round or don't try to fight. Two, some players don't want to play with another player during their boss round and may get dragged into the duo even though they were next in line. Three, I don't believe there is a system to opt out of duo bosses, though I'm not sure on that. I do know of that sfm and have watched it before and it was pretty nice, though implementing it might be an issue. Perhaps this could become another boss and instead of a duo, the tamer engi spawns rabid heavies as minions? Just throwing that out there.
 
#5
It’s a pretty neat idea, but as listed above, there are definitely some issues with duo Hales. I do remember a server a while back that wouldn’t set your queue points to 0 if you were chosen for a duo, but I’m not sure if the plugin was public or not. Either way, I’ll likely see what I can do in terms of making this boss.
 
#6
Duo hales have been argued over in the past. I remember a big issue being that players in the pair would often sandbag, drop, or just AFK up front (for various reasons). This made it impossible for them to win. There may of been some discussions regarding partner systems which could allow players to team up manually, but I dunno if they went far.

As for these two hales, the Tamer Engi getting an Amby on rage isn't exactly novel. SG already has four(?) hales with Revolvers, two of which can headshot. But if I really had anything to suggest, I think it'd be best to replace Rabid Heavy's crits on rage with minicrits and replace his passive resistances/weaknesses with a Battalion's Backup effect on rage.

It'd make him simpler, tankier and would allow most fully overhealed Reds to barely survive one hit. That's about it. They're pretty simple and straightforward, so I doubt they'd be badly over or underpowered. From my pov, all they'd need in order to work is a system allowing players to pick their partner and which of the two hales they play as.
Ah, makes sense onto why there aren't any duo bosses in the selection. I only mentioned an Ambassador as it's the only revolver in the game that can crit on headshots, and seeing from the video, that's what he does best. Maybe make it so he gets a speed boost or increased damage whenever he lands a critical? I just want him to be unique. I do enjoy your Heavy Bear suggestion though, thank you for the input.

In addition to what Flametosser said before, the biggest issue with duo-bosses,( or trio, quad, etc.) is that one, there is the issue of afk players or those who throw the round or don't try to fight. Two, some players don't want to play with another player during their boss round and may get dragged into the duo even though they were next in line. Three, I don't believe there is a system to opt out of duo bosses, though I'm not sure on that. I do know of that sfm and have watched it before and it was pretty nice, though implementing it might be an issue. Perhaps this could become another boss and instead of a duo, the tamer engi spawns rabid heavies as minions? Just throwing that out there.
I like the idea for the Cowboygineer being his own solo boss and him summoning one Heavy Bear. That way, if his partner is afk, it wouldn't matter as the main boss would still have the regular amount of health.

So the mechanic would just be spending some of his rage, like 50% of his rage to get his revolver and 100% to get his Bear, or vice-versa.
 
#7
It’s a pretty neat idea, but as listed above, there are definitely some issues with duo Hales. I do remember a server a while back that wouldn’t set your queue points to 0 if you were chosen for a duo, but I’m not sure if the plugin was public or not. Either way, I’ll likely see what I can do in terms of making this boss.
Awesome, thank you!
 

Aggressive Burger

my burgers are aggressive
TF2 Admin
#8
In addition to what Flametosser said before, the biggest issue with duo-bosses,( or trio, quad, etc.) is that one, there is the issue of afk players or those who throw the round or don't try to fight. Two, some players don't want to play with another player during their boss round and may get dragged into the duo even though they were next in line.
Duo hales have been argued over in the past. I remember a big issue being that players in the pair would often sandbag, drop, or just AFK up front (for various reasons). This made it impossible for them to win. There may of been some discussions regarding partner systems which could allow players to team up manually, but I dunno if they went far.
Way to just repeat flametosser lmao

I kinda just skimmed through the comments but according to @Big Gay, one of the reasons why duo+ hales arent a thing is because its an "impossible" game mechanic.
 
#10
i'm shocked there isnt a mechanic to pair people who picked the duo bosses together, instead of just picking next in line. granted I dont really know how feasible something like that would be to make

although given the nature of sg servers i wonder if balancing duo bosses would even be possible in the first place
 
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